Motor Selection for the LCC

[MASCMAN]

I was going to ask on the RC Crawler forum, but since you brought up the Losi, I'll ask here too.

I know that you experimented with different motors and pinions, etc.

If I was to be getting a Losi, do you think my Mamba Max and the Puller 500 would work in it? It has been working well in my AXial with the R2D, but I suspect the worm gears are even lowering gearing than the R2? What size pinion range would I be looking for?

I'm running what I think is CKRC's 11.1v, 1300mah, 20C or 25C Lipo Pack...there was some debate about whether those specs were true or not and I'm not real sure on the C rating or if it even matters.

Sounds like you are having a good time out there.:tmbup:

[Rckcrwlr]

Motor selection is the biggest part of dialing in a wormgear system.

The 500 is not going to work. The best set up for any wormgear whether it be a Rockforce, LCC or Worminator is a 21.5 or 18.5 Brushless motor. They give the best wheel speed and temps stay low.

[MASCMAN]

Can you give a quick explanation of how the Puller 500 compares to other motors? I never really understood the difference of the Puller.


I should really just put the MM and 500 into my scaler and get the new Losi system...guess I should mention that I bought a new Losi, huh? That's why I'm asking questions.:woot:

[Rckcrwlr]

Congrats on the Buy...

I am going to leave the vs explanation to Busted...He can do it better than me.

Busted... :help:

[Bustedcrawler]

The puller 500 is a 500 sized motor, which means it is smaller than the normal 540 sized motors. They work in light weight axial rigs, but with the worm drive all of your reduction is in the axles so you motor needs to be able to turn a lot of RPMs to make the truck work.

That is part of why most are having great luck with either a 18.5 or 21.5 brushless. Lots of torque and RPMs. I know myself, Rubbaneck, and Del Monte (the OG 2 Losi guys) have 21.5T brushless systems. I know there are other guys running 18.5T out there, but I'd rather make sure I have plenty of torque than no torque and lots of wheelspeed.

Using the 18.5T means you need about a 12T pinion, which you will have to shave a touch off of the dig ball cup to clear the motor. With the 21.5T you will want about a 14T pinion.

You have 3 optioons, 1) wait on the Losi Excelrion, 2) Get a Novak The Goat 3S or 3) Use the Goat 2S in robotic mode and you can use a 3S lipo that way.

Just remember with the The Goat 3S you DONT want to use the BEC it comes with, as it is a 6V/3A. Get or reuse a CCBEC as they are adjustable voltage, mine is 6V but they are 10 amps.

Or you could do a Mamba Max with a 7T puller. Its a great combo with a 14T pinion. I just wanted a LOT more cowbell.

Hope this helps.

[Rckcrwlr]

:iagre:

Told ya he would say it better...

Thanks Busted!!! :Urck:

[MASCMAN]

Thanks Matt!

Would another possible option be an Xcelorin motor on my Mamba instead of buying the whole system?
http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdID=LOSB9430

[Rckcrwlr]

You can't use a regular Brushless motor...you need to get this.



1/10 Xcelorin 21.5T Brushless Crawler Motor (http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSB9445)

[Rckcrwlr]

Here are the other items that are coming out:

Xcelorin Sensored Crawler ESC (http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSB9501)

1/10 Xcelorin 17.5T Sensored Brushless Crawler Motor (http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSB9410)

[Bustedcrawler]

:iagre:

Told ya he would say it better...

Thanks Busted!!! :Urck:



Thanks... and thank you! Meh, it's just way too much time reading on all sorts of topics coming out, :tmbup:






Thanks Matt!

Would another possible option be an Xcelorin motor on my Mamba instead of buying the whole system?
http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdID=LOSB9430



No prob man!!

No, it wouldnt work so well. Most Mamba's are sensorless where as the Xcelorin is a sensor based motor. This means there are wires from the motor to the ESC to help tell the ESC where the motor is in its rotation. This means much smoother start ups and no cogging ever!

You want a sensor based motor/ESC combo.




You can't use a regular Brushless motor...you need to get this.



1/10 Xcelorin 21.5T Brushless Crawler Motor (http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSB9445)



Right, and I believe Losi does the Crawler motors like Novak where you get a 14mm Rotor versus a smaller rotor in other motors. The larger rotor is there to gain max torque, versus the high speeds of the smaller rotor. This deals with how easy/hard it is to spin the rotor.




Here are the other items that are coming out:

Xcelorin Sensored Crawler ESC (http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSB9501)

1/10 Xcelorin 17.5T Sensored Brushless Crawler Motor (http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSB9410)



Yes those, and Novak has the new Ballistic crawler motors coming out. Not much different than the standard crawler motors, but you can replace the stator in them unlike standard ones. I plan on getting on when they come out. But for now its a standard 21.5T Crawler motor.



Hope this helps!

[MASCMAN]

The one I linked to is sensorless, so I thought it would work with the Mamba.

I know that the best thing to do would be to buy the Losi Xcelorin system, but I thought if I could match a motor up to the MM I'd be good to go.

I also thought I could go with a cheap Titan just to get it up and running for now.

[EvilTwin v2]

You can definately go with a cheaper, brushed motor to get it running, but don't expect to run alot of wheelspeed without too much heat.

From what I've seen, if you're just slow crawling with it, you'll be able to run cheap.

[Rckcrwlr]

I have to second that one. The problem with the brushed is trying to get the torque without losing the RPM. Wormgear axles' hold all the reduction so you need to make sure that the rpm's are up when it hit them.

This is different from a R&P set up. In that instance, Pinion and spur adjustments will make a huge impact.

If you remember, Busted was testing a 650 Motor for me. This was a great blend of torque and cowbell. Managing temps is the key. It is important to break them in properly so not to overheat them on the first run.

You can go sensorless but you will find choppy throttle and cogging being your worst enemy.

[EvilTwin v2]

Oldman 52 took 2nd in AM at the last comp running a pretty basic motor (can't remember which) on his LCC. He just slow crawled everything.

Unfortunately, I'm so used to the cowbell of dual 35t's on my bully that I couldn't do without the speed.

[old man 52]

i was runnig a 21t titan with a 13 tooth pinion but now im running a hh 7t puller its like night and day. no matter what brushed motor you run you will need a fan.

[Bustedcrawler]

Like John said with worms all the reduction is at the axles so lots of revs is the big key here.

You can do a titan but be careful. If I was you I'd look into a kershaw motor like I tried or just go puller. They can handle the demands of worms.

The losi is a much different beast than your axial and tales a totally different driving style and set up than your used too so keep that in mind.

Now most brushed motors will prefer cooling but that kershaw motor seemed to be fine without and for a course or so I wouldnt worry about a puller either.

I'm going brushless as I need/want more cowbell. The. Lower heat is a benefit as is longer run times but not my goal. I'm also experimenting as I've seen what that set up will do out here. But courses are quite different too. Longer only 5mins and much harder than any we ever set up out there and I'm running against several factory drivers so any advantage no matter how small I want.

If you want to go puller let me know and I can make you a deal on a lcc package with everything but the bec

[Rckcrwlr]

The motor that we are referencing from Kershaw Designs (http://www.kershawdesigns.com/).



http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/4/4/2391022/Kershaw%20Designs/Motors-650S.jpg
Revolver 650S
For those looking for a moderate boost in performance, ease of installation and, most importantly, reliability, look no further. This second generation of our 650 motor brings more of everything that Kershaw Designs motors has become famous for - inexpensive big power and reliability.

[MASCMAN]

Busted...PM me with the package you are thinking about.

That Kershaw motor looks interesting...and they are located in PA.

Can you guy's tell me more about them?

Their 700 looks like a Puller to me, could it be similiar?
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/15/1513146/kershawdesigns/775MotorComparison3.jpg

[Rckcrwlr]

Their 700 looks like a Puller to me, could it be similiar?
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/15/1513146/kershawdesigns/775MotorComparison3.jpg

Mike, the 700 is not going to fit in the LCC. The 650S needed some lube to get in (Busted can elaborate on that).

Kershaw Designs is a company out of eastern PA that I have dealt with for years. He actually does this on the side.

Dan is a great guy.

For the money, the 650s will give you the best bang. Especially if you are trying to save. I would recommend getting either Dan's Heat Sink or some type of fan just to keep air moving.

The biggest challenge with RC crawling is the air movement...there is none. By putting a fan in there if fixes that.

[MASCMAN]

I kind of figured it wouldn't fit...looks like a beast compared to the Titan, but in searching for motors I found that most of the little Power Wheels ride on toys use a 550 sized motor...I think my nieces pink Jeep may get a pair of those 700s next summer!

I do want to save money, but if you think about it...I would probably be better off just buying a new setup for the Losi and then transfer my Axial comp stuff to my Bronco scaler, then I'd have two nicely set up rigs.

Makes more sense than trying to use only bits and pieces of what I have and then end up with scattered parts.

__________________________________
How about this for the next LOSI topic:
MOA conversion or Stock SHAFTY...which is better?!

[Bustedcrawler]

The 650S is a very tight fit and part of the flux ring has to be cut out to clear the dig shifter. It can be done and it does work well.

You don't need to break the bank putting in a good set up. Brushless is money as you can plan on $240+ to get it set up right. That kershaw or a used puller with either a sidewinder or mamba max is sub 200. There just aren't that many good crawler brushless setups out there used.

So keep that in mind and ill say this don't just jump into the losi with out spending some time getting used to its driving style. Smooth and steady is how she likes it. Fast just doesn't make anything happy.

Ill pm you a price but its a MM 7T puller heat sink with fan and temp gauge.

[MASCMAN]

I was going with the Goat 3s until someone mentioned the Mamba Max Pro...said they liked it better than the Goat as some where having issues with it.

Now I'm not sure which one to get?! The MMPro is cheaper and my little MM has always been good to me.

Could pair it up with the Losi motor OR the Novak as it can run sensored or sensor-less.

Any opinions on the Mamba Max Pro?

[Bustedcrawler]

I saw a few things against the Goat but really any ESC can have problems. I've had issues with the Mamba Max and the Losi Xcekorin too.

You could just use your MM if you are going sensorless. The Pro has a better bec and I'm not sure what else. But I'd really suggest against a sensorless brushless setup. Going sensorless will mean cogging and a huge lack of low speed control. Its not going to be as smooth as a sensored system.


Feel free to experiment but from my experience either go goat or mamba with a brushed motor. Or if you want a mamba and bruahless try a revolver or other high kv motor.

[MASCMAN]

I already know not to go sensor-less. Was just saying that the MM Pro can do both...and you can get it brand new for $110.

Who has better quality...Novak or Castle?

[Bustedcrawler]

Cool beans.

Dude that's like asking what's better beer or boobs you can't answer it.

Castle makes great stuff and so does Novak. My og super rooster still works and bailed me out this summer. The only clear advantage is the castlelink and toying w the esc. But novak is rolling out the novalink too with newer stuff.


Go with what you like and can get in your budget as both will work great